Discussion on Resurrection

Hi, led by the Spirit this morning, I came upon a dialog that I had with John Gavazzoni 7 or 8 years ago. This is something that I have not seen for a long time. It is surely no coincidence that I find this now. John and I were discussing the First Resurrection back then. I will share with you here an excerpted portion from this rather lengthy dialog (John’s finishing comments), and then share with you some comments that I made to my List just after having this dialog with John. Many of you should find this all quite interesting, especially in the light of what I have shared just recently. — D

(Begin quote from John G.)

Hi David

By the way, I mentioned Stacy Wood to you a few e-mails ago, and Stacy is convinced that there have been brethren who have come into that incorruptibility that is short of immortality…

Now, the scenario may very well be, as you have surmised, but, there is another possibility, and that is, that those who reach that spiritual genuineness which is at the heart of incorruptibility, that even though they go “to the other side” through death, that they are able to pass from the other side to this side in ministry to the body of Christ AND to the world.

The veil between may be of no hindrance to them, for aionion life in them has been perfected; that is the eternal (zoe) life, which became, in Christ, aionian life (Pertaining to, and effectively operative in the age). This is the penultimate purpose of “zoe aionios,” that the eternal be effectively operative in the space-time continuum.

“Zoe,” as you know, is the specific Greek word that Spirit uses in scripture to refer to divine life. So the underlying sense of the phrase, “zoe aionios,” if we had the liberty to translate it in its full sense, might be rendered as: “God-life, age-effective,” or “Age-effective God-life.”

I’ve had a marvelous time of fellowship with a couple Greek scholars about how to translate that phrase, since all three of us agreed that the sense of it goes beyond the sense of life in and limited to age(s), but it carries the idea of quality of life also. When I suggested the above, they heartily agreed that was the sense in biblical usage, but that, in terms of what is allowable in translation, that would be suspect to translators. We’re seeking the Lord to find a way to translate the phrase with that sense, but in an academically acceptable way.

So, it may be that there are and will be those who in union with Christ, and operating in the Spirit of Christ, can, as it were, move from the eternal to the aionian without obstruction. You see, we also are seeking light as to the meaning of “angels” in scripture. We find that we have to consider the possibility that the word “angels,”—-which as you know, is simply a transliteration of Greek, “aggelos,” and simply means, “messenger.” What has been traditionally assumed to be a separate order of being, distinct from man, may be those who have been made perfect.

You’ll recall that the angel before whom John fell down to worship, said to him, “don’t do that, for I am of your brethren the prophets.” I know I didn’t quote that word-perfect, but that’s the sense of it. When you think of John the Baptist, ministering in the spirit and power of Elijah, it could very well be, that there was a very special attendance by Elijah in the ministry of the Baptist. I have known brethren to minister in a style and clarity so identical to men I have known who have passed on to be with the Lord, that it was uncanny. When I checked to see if they had ever come under the influence of the departed brother, they said, they’d never met him or heard of him, yet it was almost as if it was him ministering through them.’

Well, that’s a lot to contemplate.

John

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Greetings beloved;

This is a follow-up to brother John’s comments. What I am attempting to emphasize here is that there seems to be a (spiritual) body of light to be put on in the first resurrection as we (even as Jesus was in His earthly ministry) come to a place of sinlessness of soul and oneness with the Father (yes that is possible, and you don’t need to die physically to get there!).

This is that “first resurrection,” or soul salvation, which the elect of God are now working towards, and that “exanastasis” or “out-resurrection” that the apostle Paul expressed a hope of attaining to.

In regard to that “spiritual body,” I now believe that once one attains to the resurrection of his soul, a spiritual body is put on; a garment of light for ministering in and out from the eternal realm while still in a body of flesh and blood in the natural. Was this not what Jesus showed the disciples (and us by extension) on the mount of Transfiguration? Is this not also what the Holy Spirit is trying to convey to us through the Zadok priesthood of Ezekiel 44?

With this in mind, let me share with you some more thoughts that I have had in response to brother John’s e-mail…

The Father is certainly stirring many of us to wait and meditate on the things of the first resurrection in this day, and this, because I think that the first resurrection is close and at hand for a remnant of the Lord’s people.

I think that there is some truth to what John had to say about “aionian life,” and that those having entered into that life can pass from “eternal to the aionian without obstruction.” I don’t think that this is limited to only those who have been perfected (in soul) and passed on in death though, but is inclusive of those saints who live on after having passed into that “age-effective God-life.” I think that Jesus is our pattern for this type of ministry.

In His earthly ministry, Jesus was never limited in His access to the eternal realm while in a body of flesh and blood was He? Is that not because of His oneness with the Father; a oneness that will also be experienced at some point by the sons of the first resurrection? And if this oneness with the Father and access to the heavens is to be our experience, did not Paul make it clear that there is a “spiritual body” for the heavens even as there is a terrestrial body for the earth? Is not this “spiritual body” what Jesus gave us a glimpse of at the Mt. of Transfiguration? Was that body perhaps something that Jesus wore always but could not be seen by the disciples (or anyone else for that matter) until they were given temporary vision for the spirit realm? Do you think perhaps that that is why Jesus was so easily recognized by the demons in His day? … Is it possible that in the spirit they could see Jesus clothed in light; garments of incorruption, identifying Him to them as the Son of God?

With this in mind, is it not also possible then that upon salvation of the soul, or “resurrection” of the soul, these same “incorruptible garments” that Jesus wore are put on by believers in Christ; bodies of light fit for ministering in the heavenlies but only seen in the spirit? Is this not perhaps the Father’s “mansions” spoken of by Jesus in the Gospels?

Beloved, I believe that we have BODIES OF LIGHT being prepared for us NOW as we work out our salvation with “fear and trembling,” and these “bodies” are then “put on” (spiritually) when the soul is finally prepared to experience its resurrection state. All of us as believers in the Lord Jesus have been resurrected in spirit at regeneration, but we are all most likely awaiting and working towards the salvation of our souls; when we will be clothed in incorruptible garments, and that, for the purpose of ministering to the Father in the Holiest of all.

Does this not describe the Zadok priesthood of Ezekiel 44 and the garments they must put on to minister to the Lord in the Most Holy Place? And does this not also help to put into perspective those “woolen garments” or natural bodies which are worn by these same ones in their ministry in the time-space continuum?

It seems that what I speak of today is modeled for us perfectly in Jesus’ earthly ministry, and it also seems that a very similar ministry is just ahead for a blessed and holy company that will have part in the first resurrection.

How utterly wonderful and awesome are the plans that God has for His elect (and the whole earth by extension) in the coming age! May our Father grant us the grace to understand these wondrous things as the Spirit unfolds them before us …

— D